tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post2443836707479359395..comments2023-06-20T05:07:32.843-07:00Comments on Gay Romance: #Smashwords and #LGBT: Please Recognize Us...Erica Pikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-63173299316341826042012-11-14T11:04:07.172-08:002012-11-14T11:04:07.172-08:00Jeez, I'd go ballistic! But yes, you're pr...Jeez, I'd go ballistic! But yes, you're probably right. It's probably not that the retailers are deliberately trying to discriminate, it's probably more that they're unenlightened. Well, I'm going to do my best to try to enlighten them (via letter, which tons of people before me have probably already done...).Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-21002107458921190632012-11-14T08:41:19.814-08:002012-11-14T08:41:19.814-08:00I have to chime in because I share your frustratio...I have to chime in because I share your frustration with the gay=erotica thing. My book contains no descriptions of sex at all, besides mentioning that sex took place, and it is consistently labeled as erotica. I think this is all based on some old fashioned notion that the very idea of men being intimate is pornographic. I even wrote a snarky blog post about this: http://lauraleeauthor.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/how-to-be-a-pornographer-without-really-trying/<br /><br />Laura Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13227145023299742137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-23264048593516939982012-11-12T03:25:44.670-08:002012-11-12T03:25:44.670-08:00I know! I walked through B&N in Albuquerque an...I know! I walked through B&N in Albuquerque and didn't find a single m/m title. Was hoping to see something by the big guns there, but nothing.<br /><br />Don't worry about ranting, this is a huge neon-red button for me as well. It's also illegal here in Iceland to discriminate, so I'm finding it very hard to "sympathize" with countries where there's actual open discrimination taking place. Doesn't matter on which platform - open racist/homophobic remarks on TV/street signs or inequality in online cataloging.Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-89481273770641874712012-11-11T13:11:05.268-08:002012-11-11T13:11:05.268-08:00I have ranted on this subject before, not just wit...I have ranted on this subject before, not just with regard to Smashwords but generally. We're supposed to have equality of orientation. In the UK it's actually illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation, but it's a load of bull when it comes to literature. <br /><br />Take a look in the bookshops. Where are the books with GBLT characters? They're stuffed together on a shelf hidden away at the back. <br /><br />I was once told i was irresponsible for listing a story as Contemporary Romance when I 'should have' listed it as 'gay' or 'm/m' because people searching through the stories/books were entitled to assume they were straight unless otherwise informed and might be offended. what the hell?? Anyone else smell homophobia?<br /><br />Sorry. This is just a HUGE red button for me.Nephy's Worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677130973931453911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-34057616462691376842012-11-11T07:24:21.982-08:002012-11-11T07:24:21.982-08:00Great post Erica. I knew we were over at Smashword...Great post Erica. I knew we were over at Smashwords but I didn't notice where Under the Gun was.<br /><br />I recently did my self pub and placed it under gay erotica and gay and lesbian fiction. I think you can only pick 3 categories. <br /><br />I hear ya though. A lot of LGBT is not categorized correctly. Wish they'd all fix it across the boardS.Lirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17787307019842983456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-19210064959036138322012-11-11T04:10:41.783-08:002012-11-11T04:10:41.783-08:00They allow two categories for each book and an unl...They allow two categories for each book and an unlimited number of tags. Having had a career in database management, I can understand the issues that face them. If you look at the number of tags people have created (because they're free to define whatever they want), you'll see thousands of them. Even looking for the 'gay' tags brings up hundreds, because everybody who adds a book wants to make a unique category for it. You'll find things like "gay cowboys and aliens shifter menage" and every possible mis-spelling of it.<br /><br />I'm not saying you're wrong in wanting a gay romance category - hell, that's where most of my books probably belong - but I do understand why this isn't such a simple thing for Smashwords to contemplate. One of the problems with the Internet as a whole these days is that so much of the content is user-generated (and you could put Smashwords in that category) but there is almost no real curation of the content. That requires real human beings who know at least something about the subject matter to sort through it, and who could afford that?Michael Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235254872878946585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-76378541013686017402012-11-11T02:39:43.552-08:002012-11-11T02:39:43.552-08:00Thanks Lisabet :)
Yes, the definition seems to di...Thanks Lisabet :)<br /><br />Yes, the definition seems to differ for many people. Yours sounds more correct than mine. Either way, my stories don't fit under the category (although one of the unpublished ones I have definitely fits under the category).<br /><br />You're right that a lot of what's being shelved under Erotica is basically porn (not that I'm down-talking porn either - I very much enjoy porn ^.^). I guess that's why there was a need for a new genre, the Romance Erotica genre, because by what's being shelved today, "erotica" appears not to be the same as it was some years ago. Things evolve with time, nothing wrong with that.<br /><br />Regardless (and this is my main complaint), wherever my books are shelved, the lack of genre shelves for LGBT titles is still lacking and I'm hoping that'll change in the near future. So far, I only have contemporary titles and even though they can't directly be shelved under "Romance" with most retailers, they definitely couldn't be shelved under "Historical", if they were historical books. I can only imagine the frustration of people who write genre-specific books like that, not being able to shelve them properly. Or just the frustration of readers of genre-specific titles not to be able to find the latest Gay Sci-Fi (so even if the title can be shelved twice - under Gay and then under Historical with all the m/f titles, I still won't be able to cross-search the two to find the title).Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-83176038132340133252012-11-11T02:20:56.058-08:002012-11-11T02:20:56.058-08:00I actually don't know how many times a title c...I actually don't know how many times a title can be shelved at these various retailer places. It's my publisher who handles the shelving. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll see if my publisher will change it for me. <br /><br />The main problem still remains though, that shelving of sub-genres in LGBT literature is seriously lacking (everywhere - I was looking closer at B&N yesterday and sure, there was Gay under Erotica, but there wasn't Gay under Romance. What they're insinuating by that is just insulting for LGBT people, although they probably haven't put much thought into this). Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-18611783201010324282012-11-10T22:38:02.207-08:002012-11-10T22:38:02.207-08:00You do realize that you don't have to choose j...You do realize that you don't have to choose just ONE category, don't you? You can choose at least two. I have several of my books in both Gay Fiction and Erotica > Gay. No problems.Michael Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235254872878946585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-22426748590370628172012-11-10T19:39:14.177-08:002012-11-10T19:39:14.177-08:00Hi, Erica,
I can understand your frustration. How...Hi, Erica,<br /><br />I can understand your frustration. However, as someone who writes erotica as well as romance, I have to say my definitions are different from yours. Erotica is definitely not "sex only, with no romance", or at least that's not the main criterion for the distinction. Erotica tends to be focused somewhat differently, more on the immediate experience than the growing relationship, and especially, erotica often doesn't have a HEA. <br /><br />A lot of what is getting electronically shelved as erotica is these days basically porn. Not at all commensurate.<br /><br />Anyway, I definitely agree that romance readers are going to be looking elsewhere for your books. But as some of the other commenters have mentioned, you may have some control over where they put you - especially at Smashwords.Lisabet Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162514190572269660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-55979793260510630042012-11-10T14:57:52.323-08:002012-11-10T14:57:52.323-08:00Thanks Julie, I'll see what she'll say.Thanks Julie, I'll see what she'll say. Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-74544737143392678722012-11-10T14:34:37.138-08:002012-11-10T14:34:37.138-08:00Erica, you do not have to have it under erotica si...Erica, you do not have to have it under erotica simply because it has sex in it. I self-pubbed my story, and never categorized it as erotica. Ask the publisher to recategorize it, or it will receive the stigma of erotica.Julie Lynn Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03574029767523627749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-83137406516698884152012-11-10T10:39:21.902-08:002012-11-10T10:39:21.902-08:00Ugh, they are? I didn't know. That just gets m...Ugh, they are? I didn't know. That just gets my hackles up. Gha!Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-48437728807219282252012-11-10T10:26:50.080-08:002012-11-10T10:26:50.080-08:00I meant Genre I dont know why I didnt caught that ...I meant Genre I dont know why I didnt caught that before I hit publishSilver Pixieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00235532680624844506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-76609426385679268732012-11-10T10:23:19.192-08:002012-11-10T10:23:19.192-08:00I have no words of Wisdom just more bad news.. Pay...I have no words of Wisdom just more bad news.. Paypal is going rounds again about this Genra and its about to get bad for everyone all over again and this time i dont think Paypal is going to back down.. Its truly sick and sad in this day and age.Silver Pixieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00235532680624844506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-67946576629311612702012-11-10T09:51:46.294-08:002012-11-10T09:51:46.294-08:00Thanks, Z. Not only thinking about my own work her...Thanks, Z. Not only thinking about my own work here though. I've started many, many blog posts on this topic, but today I got the fire to really do it. It was just disappointing. Who knows, maybe Smashwords will change it one day. I still have a little faith in them. They did go all out in the fight against Paypal. If I remember correctly, Mark Coker even met with them personally to talk about the matter and that's when Paypal changed their stance. I don't think they would have without Mark's involvement. Or at least it would have taken much longer.Erica Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01410036734790965799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1474876370737693502.post-30141260912986537642012-11-10T09:42:27.281-08:002012-11-10T09:42:27.281-08:00It is frustrating and upsetting. Your work deserve...It is frustrating and upsetting. Your work deserves to be found easily and enjoyed. No words of wisdom from me... just hugs, z.Z. Allorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717073334637703737noreply@blogger.com